bumpNgrind Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 howdy, so i have a question on the use of samples (guitar, rhythm or vocals) in an original production (beats). i was of the understanding that this would be classified as a 'mash up', because you are using another artists song to benefit yours, therefore in breach of copyright or whatever. then i came across this from one of my favourite artists, bonobo: check out @ 6 minutes, and he's talking about the use of a sound from an old record, for which he doesnt even remember what it was. so im assuming the original artists receives no money from any sales what so ever etc..this now has me puzzled. what's acceptable and whats not?? is there so much of a sample you can use before its infringing the other artists rights? cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRat Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 In a nutshell, anything that's not yours you need to pay rights for. I believe the samples from vengeance and sounds to sample etc are royalty free for use in your own productions but you're still paying the original when purchasing the packs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 In a nutshell, anything that's not yours you need to pay rights for. I believe the samples from vengeance and sounds to sample etc are royalty free for use in your own productions but you're still paying the original when purchasing the packsI don't think that's right man, not sure on the exact rules but I can easy sample lyrics from a song, make a remix, give credit to vocal artist and as long as I don't make money on it that's fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpNgrind Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 In a nutshell, anything that's not yours you need to pay rights for. I believe the samples from vengeance and sounds to sample etc are royalty free for use in your own productions but you're still paying the original when purchasing the packsI don't think that's right man, not sure on the exact rules but I can easy sample lyrics from a song, make a remix, give credit to vocal artist and as long as I don't make money on it that's finei agree with that, if you in a club and remix a track, its not an issue. but in the example i provided, the sample is from an old record and is used in a track which the artist has sold and made money from.the point spitfire made i somewhat understand. but lets forget your instrumental samples here for a second and imagine that for example i bought a britney spears track for $0.99c, made a remix sampling her work with just the line 'hit me baby one more time' used, released it on itunes and sold 100,000 copies. hows the break down work? does she see any of that money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Yep, but it would most likely be a set amount Say your remix gets signed to a label, then the label will pay britneys label maybe $5000 in royalties straight off the bat before they can sell it And maybe even a % of each sale as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpNgrind Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 Yep, but it would most likely be a set amount Say your remix gets signed to a label, then the label will pay britneys label maybe $5000 in royalties straight off the bat before they can sell it And maybe even a % of each sale as wellthanks that makes sense.so in the example i posted with bonobo, technically, he should have been paying part of a royalty to whoever made that original track (as it was a significant sound in the overall production). or does the fact he edited the sound excuse him from the royalty part?appreciate the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Hmmm sounds are harder to classify, to be honest he could claim it as his own sound and say he created it, if it's like 90% of the track there could be a case though Like when Alexis jordan stole deadmau5's Brazil, and the same thing happened to avicci lately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpNgrind Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 Hmmm sounds are harder to classify, to be honest he could claim it as his own sound and say he created it, if it's like 90% of the track there could be a case though Like when Alexis jordan stole deadmau5's Brazil, and the same thing happened to avicci latelymakes sense - has shed a bit of light on it for me.what was the outcome of the jordan and deadmau5 situation, did he get any coin from it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Yep, heaps, he sued, not sure on exact amount but I bet it was close to half, + she had to give all producing rights to him, alot of the time on the net you will see it as featuring deadmau5 lol Avicci also won when leaona Lewis stole penguin( No lyrics)/fade into darkness(with lyrics) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRat Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 In a nutshell, anything that's not yours you need to pay rights for. I believe the samples from vengeance and sounds to sample etc are royalty free for use in your own productions but you're still paying the original when purchasing the packsI don't think that's right man, not sure on the exact rules but I can easy sample lyrics from a song, make a remix, give credit to vocal artist and as long as I don't make money on it that's fineWell that depends how the artist or label feels about it. Obviously if you're making money you'll need to be laying royalties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRat Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Like when Alexis jordan stole deadmau5's Brazil, and the same thing happened to avicci latelyTo my knowledge, that track wasn't stolen. There was also another version done using that same track by Kylie. It was altered slightly but deadmau5 had control over the work. Same thing with avicci. I'm aware that these guys get full rights to the tune or whatever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 that may be the case with deadmau5 but definitely not avicci, he didnt even know about it until a fan dobbed leona in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggssell Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 just in regards to the avicci/ leona thang though if you read the actual comments from avicci and his management they never disclaim that they offered the music up. they talk about not ever having given clearance on the leona track being released, nor having reviewed it to be named as "producers".it just sounded too suss that he was already credited on the release notes as a writer.so to me he and his label shopped it to them, but cowell released it without letting avicci and his mob review it AND discuss the monetary terms. and they probably wanted final say on the track which cowell probably didnt want to give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpNgrind Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 just in regards to the avicci/ leona thang though if you read the actual comments from avicci and his management they never disclaim that they offered the music up. they talk about not ever having given clearance on the leona track being released, nor having reviewed it to be named as "producers".it just sounded too suss that he was already credited on the release notes as a writer.so to me he and his label shopped it to them, but cowell released it without letting avicci and his mob review it AND discuss the monetary terms. and they probably wanted final say on the track which cowell probably didnt want to give up.sounds about right. thanks for the insights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyB Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 tbh it all comes down to the record label and how risky they are.you make a track. send it to a label and let them know where the samples have come from. From here 3 things can happen1. They risk it, sign the track and release it and hope the owner dosent catch on, which happens alot.2. They contact the owner and discuss the use and what royalties will be paid.3. They send the track back to you and tell you to replace it with something else.also. Think of the 'think' breakbeat, people have used that break in 100's of songs and i dont think lyn collin's gets royalties.also with making bootlegs there is a bit of grey area. technically if you aernt making money off of it you are fine, but people can claim that your remix has taken focus off their product therefore causing them a loss in sales and a bunch of other technical shit like that.basically if you make a bootleg and get stung for it, youve sampled someone who is friends with good lawyers and they found out about it on a really shitty day for them, would have to be extremely unlucky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpNgrind Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 ^ I guess thats where my confusion arose, because there are plenty of tracks released that have other artists samples, i just wasn't sure about how 'honest' the disclosure of this was to other artists involved etc. i guess as long as its not a dead ringer for the track it should be sweet, alot of my stuff is just sounds re-edited, so hopefully that should be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tymeworkbeats Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 If the sample is in the public domain then it's ok to use. But if it isn't, then you have to contact the owner of the original recording and they're going to want a cut. However, if you chop up a sound good enough to where no one can tell where it's from, then you might get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetIshDub Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Can't forget the Vanilla Ice tactic.1. Blatantly sample 3 seconds of a song and make it your main groove2. get caught and taken to court3. buy exclusive rights to sampled song making you the sole owner4.5. shit ton of profit from two mega hits instead of just one.Not really a feasible approach for 99.99999% of musicians but I feel its worth a mention since that under pressure/ice ice baby deal was a pretty huge sampling controversy.1:45 there's a classic explanation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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