an alternative to mix/sound-cloud - adjf-cloud?

[overit]

so this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11345&p=170957#p170957

has ended up discussing the pros and cons of mixcloud and soundcloud

basically recognising that neither is achaly that hot from our P.O.V.

Could our very own ADJF tech team do better I wonder? Could it be the next step for the boards?

i.e: a mix/sound hosting site which isnt buggy/slow or always claiming copyright infringement?

[Cupe]

it's the bandwidth costs that would skyrocket

[overit]

ah well, that was easy

[Kodiak]

And how do you get around the copyright issue?

[Cupe]

unlegally

[GREMM1S]

Forgot to mention before beatport mixes is on beta now.

Its sad that soundcloud is being a bitch, but technically putting mixes online is a breach of the private usage of your music right? I.e its using the music for public broadcast which you need extra licenses for from memory.

[overit]

^ yeah. I think that's why mixcloud was invented, because they are effectively a radio station and offer links automatically to places where you can buy the individual tracks, not download them as part of a mix. Shame it is overshadowed by Soundcloud really. I think if they had more users they would earn more revenue and thus improve. Unfortunately soundcloud came first so people are more used to it.

Beatbort Beta sounds interesting tho...

[ThatPartyGuy]

host in US, cheaper bandwidth then Australia (we get ripped off so much for bandwidth).

copyright? host in Sweden ?

[GREMM1S]

Yeah you actually sell your mixes or something, lol partyguy has the right idea

[Cupe]

auspiratebaycloud.com

[Addi]

Regarding the copyright stuff, in all our track descriptions (mixes or bootys) we put the following:

All content is posted for promotional reasons and remains the property of the artists. We (Bombaclat) do not retain distribution rights.

Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use.

Release date:

We used to have a few issues when trying to upload mixes and bootlegs, but since we have been putting that in we don't have a problem. I don't know if it's just luck or if it legitimately covers your ass.

[Cupe]

Nice excerpt

[lloydc]

Regarding the copyright stuff, in all our track descriptions (mixes or bootys) we put the following:

All content is posted for promotional reasons and remains the property of the artists. We (Bombaclat) do not retain distribution rights.

Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use.

Release date:

We used to have a few issues when trying to upload mixes and bootlegs, but since we have been putting that in we don't have a problem. I don't know if it's just luck or if it legitimately covers your ass.

that's an american act, so you aren't going to be in breach of it in this country.... that's not to say that soundcloud aint gonna pull your shit down off the internet.

for those interested, we have the copyright act 1968 in australia - http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/ ... ca1968133/

further more, the copyrights amendment act 2006 - http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/ ... aa2006213/

[Addi]

Regarding the copyright stuff, in all our track descriptions (mixes or bootys) we put the following:

All content is posted for promotional reasons and remains the property of the artists. We (Bombaclat) do not retain distribution rights.

Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use.

Release date:

We used to have a few issues when trying to upload mixes and bootlegs, but since we have been putting that in we don't have a problem. I don't know if it's just luck or if it legitimately covers your ass.

that's an american act, so you aren't going to be in breach of it in this country.... that's not to say that soundcloud aint gonna pull your shit down off the internet.

for those interested, we have the copyright act 1968 in australia - http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/ ... ca1968133/

further more, the copyrights amendment act 2006 - http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/ ... aa2006213/

Yeah soundcloud can be whales so they might look past it eventually.

Ill have to scour through those acts to get the best phrase to use! Cheers bro!

[yizzle]

people keep saying soundcloud is a whale when it comes to uploading mixes or whatever. but it was never designed for top 40 mixes and using tracks that believe it or not belong to labels.

look around soundcloud, they do not encourage nor promote mixes or mash ups etc. that use copy write material (like some places might). but they encourage the use of recording original sounds and music.

its a good platform for people who want to share recorded sounds (of a a band in a garage or a sheep going 'baa')

srs... i think its lucky you can still get a mix up on it and use it as a promotional tool to benefit yourself for free.

Soundcloud most likely do not want legal threats from labels everyday as much as you or i would in the email inbox.

use mixcloud or another site if you think they are whales, or just be grateful a mix or mash up can still go on it.

/end rant.

[Addi]

people keep saying soundcloud is a whale when it comes to uploading mixes or whatever. but it was never designed for top 40 mixes and using tracks that believe it or not belong to labels.

look around soundcloud, they do not encourage nor promote mixes or mash ups etc. that use copy write material (like some places might). but they encourage the use of recording original sounds and music.

its a good platform for people who want to share recorded sounds (of a a band in a garage or a sheep going 'baa')

srs... i think its lucky you can still get a mix up on it and use it as a promotional tool to benefit yourself for free.

Soundcloud most likely do not want legal threats from labels everyday as much as you or i would in the email inbox.

use mixcloud or another site if you think they are whales, or just be grateful a mix or mash up can still go on it.

/end rant.

Yeah thats a fair point.

But in a sense its still a platform for creative expression whether it be an original sound from a band or a producer sampling tracks. Mixes, bootlegs, remixes etc are still unique in their own sense and take time and creativity, and if it is non profit, I don't see why they should be restricted.

Soundcloud is also pretty much the global tool for DJ's/Producers to show their work, and some like myself do pay a fee for using it.

[overit]

Mixes, bootlegs, remixes etc are still unique in their own sense and take time and creativity, and if it is non profit, I don't see why they should be restricted.

Just to put this into perspective:

If I go into Macdonalds, steal a heap of bigmacs, take out all the gherkins and add sweet chilli sauce so they are my own unique creation, then give them away for free. Have I done anything wrong?

Point being: remixes and mashups done without the original copyright owners consent are theft, just the same as straight up pirating. We used to have specialised sample clearance lawyers and still do but as there is no internationally agreed law there are huge blurry lines regarding what is ok or not on the internet.

If you really want to go for it I always suggest you contact the original composer (just like we did when looking for sample clearance pre-internet). Normally these days it's some guy just like you who is happy to give you permission for free anyway.

If you find yourself against a brick wall of lawyers defending some david guetta shit that you have only improved - well at least then you can then make an informed choice wether or not you think it righteous to thief from the crap WHALE.

[russell]

^ well said.

only bad thing about soundcloud is the amount of spammers on it.

[Addi]

Mixes, bootlegs, remixes etc are still unique in their own sense and take time and creativity, and if it is non profit, I don't see why they should be restricted.

Just to put this into perspective:

If I go into Macdonalds, steal a heap of bigmacs, take out all the gherkins and add sweet chilli sauce so they are my own unique creation, then give them away for free. Have I done anything wrong?

I see what you mean, but it's totally different to straight up pirating dont you think? If I steal burgers from maccas and give them out for a price or even for free, fair enough. But, if I buy a burger from Maccas, Red Rooster, KFC and Nando's, and grab bits of all of them to create my own burger and eat it, what's the problem with that?

The copyright issue will always be a touchy subject with no clear lines as you said. But I still think there is nothing wrong with using soundcloud as a tool for showing the world your shit, regardless of how good or crap it is. But it is also up to the individual to do the correct thing and not abuse it.

[GREMM1S]

End of the day unless you have licenses or a lables pemission bootlegs and mixes put online are a breach of the usage of the music we own.

When other sites can match soundcloud in bandwidth and the whole experience i will consider moving but most people

Still use it, if you go the mixcloud avenue you could potentially be missing out on heaps of listeners.

[overit]

I see what you mean, but it's totally different to straight up pirating dont you think? If I steal burgers from maccas and give them out for a price or even for free, fair enough. But, if I buy a burger from Maccas, Red Rooster, KFC and Nando's, and grab bits of all of them to create my own burger and eat it, what's the problem with that?

if you eat it, no problem.

...and here is where the analogy breaks down lol:

If you post it on an internationally accessible website for anyone to hear and to help promote your own rep and career then I reckon you owe the originator a little rep too.

It is totally different to straight up pirating but the essence is the same. IMO the essence is: someone worked hard to produce a sound. You have taken their work as inspiration and re-worked it, adding your own input and spending your own time on it. You post this coz you love it, you also know it may help increase your online stats and thus your rep. If you didnt at least chk with the original composer then I reckon you done them wrong. In an ideal situ you and the original composer would profit from both your work.

The big issue here is that we all pretty much want to give up our day jobs and earn a living making and playing music. If we dont set the standard for offering props and income to those whose music we use why should we expect to ever earn anything ourselves?

[Addi]

I see what you mean, but it's totally different to straight up pirating dont you think? If I steal burgers from maccas and give them out for a price or even for free, fair enough. But, if I buy a burger from Maccas, Red Rooster, KFC and Nando's, and grab bits of all of them to create my own burger and eat it, what's the problem with that?

if you eat it, no problem.

...and here is where the analogy breaks down lol:

If you post it on an internationally accessible website for anyone to hear and to help promote your own rep and career then I reckon you owe the originator a little rep too.

It is totally different to straight up pirating but the essence is the same. IMO the essence is: someone worked hard to produce a sound. You have taken their work as inspiration and re-worked it, adding your own input and spending your own time on it. You post this coz you love it, you also know it may help increase your online stats and thus your rep. If you didnt at least chk with the original composer then I reckon you done them wrong. In an ideal situ you and the original composer would profit from both your work.

The big issue here is that we all pretty much want to give up our day jobs and earn a living making and playing music. If we dont set the standard for offering props and income to those whose music we use why should we expect to ever earn anything ourselves?

haha yeah, thats a fair point. I am in no way trying to defend copyright its just interesting seeing what people see as acceptable or not. Then again it doesn't matter what people think, it's up to what the law says isn't it.

The music artists produce is an avenue to get there name out there resulting in gigs. The more people hear there music in different forms and the more people see their name around the web, surely thats only a good thing for their rep? Look at Skrillex, released his first album for free, nek minut, world famous and making fuckloads of money off gigs. So making bootlegs and using their tunes in mixes is just helping them out

[overit]

true dat...

i'm only playing devils advotroll to keep an interesting thread going.

To be brutally honest I cant say I'm too heavily into law though, I prefer ethics.

eg if I wanted to remix a bangin track you made I would ask you str8 up. Then when you said "groovy baby, but it'll cost you a beer" I would post on my soundcloud: "samples willingly cleared by Addi who is the dope dj responsible for this sweet sample and a great inspiration to me." We both win.

If i wanted to use a sample of david guetta who is already rolling in cash and kissing the corporate arse... or even worse a sample of some girl band whose income all gets diverted to the monstrous record companies who fill the pop charts with shit... well then I would be ethically required to pay nowt and say nowt.

But that's just me

[Addi]

haha I see that man. But it will cost you 2 beers ya tight ass

Personally, with most of the bootys i've done I've contacted the artists in some form to let them know, and with our mixtapes I contact every artist to let them know too, especially the underground ones who are usually stoked for the support. Whether I hear back from them or not is another story, but ethically it seems like the right thing to do.

[overit]

LOL...

You drive a hard bargain...

2 beers it is